Ranges

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:05 am

Has anyone looked at the ranges for any of the wapons yet? I know what the small arms can do. I wouldn't mind if someone pointed me in the right direction for artillery and rockets and such.
Thanks
Renleg

Site Admin Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 174

Something I've been thinking about too. The FoW standard of 16" seems way too far for musket warfare.

Looks like Flames of Revolution lists infantry as 4" or less and artillery as 16".

I scanned Balls of Iron and it looks like artillery ranges from 16-36", but I couldn't quickly find the range of muskets.

Empire V has musket range at 2", rifles at 3" and ... I forget the range of artillery.

Personally, I had in the back of my mind that something like the 4" SMG range would work well for musketry (6" for rifles?) ... but I've not explored that in much depth.

Anybody else have any thoughts? What have you guys been doing? What are you doing? What would you like to do? Do you have any insights to help keep this reasonably accurate for the scale?

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:34 pm

Well I cant hit anything over 100 yards with my musket and its all tooled up for target shooting. My Uncle uses a french Fussie and he can get about 120-150 before he starts to miss. I think the 4" would be good for muskets (if not a bit far) and 6" for rifles. Now bear in mind that is at a range so out in the field while being shot at you wont hit much but its the weight of fire that will slow you down. Kind of like walking into the wind.

Dan aka renleg

Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 11 Location: Defiance, Ohio, USA

When you consider range though, have to play in how far yo can move in a turn.. I don't think it would fly well if a unit can move right out of range and into your face without the other unit not being able to get a shot off.

I was thinking earlier of a dual band: Out to 8 (10 for Rifle) ROF 1, under 4, ROF 2 to account for more accurate shooting. Reason I do the double band, is that if you get that many balls flying, even at long range, some is bound to hit.

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:31 pm

At that range all it will do is give you a good bruise. But I do think your right you should not be able to move in and then out again. What can we do to solve that? we could always make the muskets move or fire. I cant think of any time you would actually fire on the move anyway?... and the time it would take to redress the line would make up the time in the movement phase anyway.

just my thoughts.
renleg aka Dan

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:20 am

I agree with Al on this. Assuming our units can move 6" and shoot 4", it doesnt make sense that a soldier could 'out-pace' his own musket ball.

Additionally, it means that you'll only get 1 volley of musket fire off before an assault could be launched (assuming we use the standard assault rules). No, I agree entirely with Al's system of 8" musket range as well as with his reduced RoF apparatus.

Cheers,
Mike

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:09 pm

ok but I think we should probable up the rof as most professional soldiers of the day could get off 3 rounds a min. Some of the batter ones could get off 4. ROF of 2 would be good for militia or not so good troops. but if most people like the 8" range (10") then no prob here majority rules. I still dont think you should be able to move and shoot though.

Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 11 Location: Defiance, Ohio, USA

Hrm, on further thought, perhaps, though this is too much a change in the way the basic game works, one phase in which a unit can do something? Move, Shoot, or Assualt?

ROF I gave was assuming one hit picks the stand up, of course, if a stand has the abilty to take more than one, I would suggest that the ROF at the 4" band be the same as that. Say, we copy the warmaster (which surprisingly, isn't that bad a ruleset if you look at it) way of doing things, 3 hits = stand pickup. Each stand as a ROF of 3 at 4" and under, 1 at 8"? Or 4 and 2 ROF?

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:06 pm

renleg wrote:

ok but I think we should probable up the rof as most professional soldiers of the day could get off 3 rounds a min. Some of the better ones could get off 4. ROF of 2 would be good for militia or not so good troops. but if most people like the 8" range (10") then no prob here majority rules. I still dont think you should be able to move and shoot though.

I think we went over this in the 'Basing' thread, but I agree that a unit ought not be able to move and shoot.

For the purpose of the game, however,... consider, if you will, that if we assign each stand a RoF of 4, we effectively make each regular infanty stand an HMG team. that volume of fire might potentially unbalance the FoW rule set. I say we stick with RoF=2 per stand as they have in FoW:WWII and allow higher RoFs for crack troops and such. To repeat my position from the other thread:

Scary Biscuts wrote:

Dunno if this is accurate, but it would ease the transition from regular FoW:

Medium Bases: RoF=2. (therefore a brigade would have a total RoF of 4, if we adopt the 2 stand formation)
Small Bases: RoF=1, but are never 'pinned down'

???

As for hit, there are a couple of ways we can go about this.

First, if a brigade has 2 medium bases as its composition, then naturally it could absorb 2 hits, lose one stand and then the other. As the brigade loses casualties it becomes less effective and therefore cannot enable the various formations afforded by the 2 stand unit. Im not a huge fan of this because if we say that a brigade has a RoF of 4 and 2 hits, it seems unlikely that a brigade could eliminate another at a rate of 2:1,... did I make any sense there?

OR

We could adopt the "wound" system and assign a certian amount of hit points to each brigade (perhaps 4?). As they take hits the brigade loses these hit points until they reach zero and eliminating the brigade as an effective unit,...not that it would be considered 'destroyed' rather neutralized for the purpose of the game...

Perhaps RoF deserves its own thread,...

Cheers,
Mike

Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7

Quote:

I agree with Al on this. Assuming our units can move 6" and shoot 4", it doesnt make sense that a soldier could 'out-pace' his own musket ball.

Additionally, it means that you'll only get 1 volley of musket fire off before an assault could be launched (assuming we use the standard assault rules). No, I agree entirely with Al's system of 8" musket range as well as with his reduced RoF apparatus.

Cheers,
Mike

Dont forget you will take another shot during defensive fire...

Hiya guys, 1st post and I hope we can make a set of rules that work Smile

cheers

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:07 am

If you are assaulted you fire as stationary so that would be your exchange of fire before the enemy formation hits your line.

As for outpacing your musket fire that could well happen. remember that you have to come to a halt, dress your line, prime your pans, load the shot, Ram the shot, come back to the shoulder, make ready, point at enemy, and fire, and finally come back to the shoulder, now do this another 2 times in a minute. a formation could well march at regular time (lets leave out at the double at the quick and at the halfpace) the full extent of a practical musket exchange. (aprox. 100 to 200 yards)

Another point to remember bayonet assaults were done at the regular (walking pace) not at the quick. But again I will go with the majority

This is the reason I personally dont agree with being able to fire on the move.

well maybe rof 1 if moving and 3 if stationary but Im still not too convinced. There just isnt enugh time to get of your shot keep everyone straight and still get of your shots.

heaven forbid you have to form square because then you would be done for the whole turn.

Maybe we should look at how long a turn is in real time before we try to cram everything into said amout of time it might help?

Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 11 Location: Defiance, Ohio, USA

Well, that does sort of tie in with what I said, each turn you do one thing, be it move, shoot, or assualt.

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:44 pm

I think you are right Al. Even though this is a major change It may be the only way to represent everything in a historical manner. I know fow isnt known for being the most historically acurate game in the world but it does keep to history in a broader sense. What does everyoone else think one action per turn?

Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Sylvania, OHIO

Worth playtesting to see if it gets the results we are looking for. Cool

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:36 pm

ok so what we have so far.....

weapon Range Rof Fp Rules

Musket 4"/8" 2/1 6+ Volley fire

Rifles 6"/10" 1 5+ Volley fire

Volley fire: Weapons may move or shoot but may not do both. This is due to the time it takes to prepare to fire.

So what does everyone think did I capture what everyone was saying or am I off base?