Why not 1:1 scale?...Maybe your barking up the wrong tree?

Joined: 13 Apr 2008 Posts: 4

Battlefront has engineered a huge market for this scale in WWII. Why wouldn't they do the same when they come out with Napoleonics 20 years down the road from now? Wink

I understand that some people want huge beautiful Napoleonic armies, but there are already multitudes of rules sets out there for them. It's quite a daunting task for someone who is just getting started with Napoleonics to sit down and plan out and paint an entire napoleonic army. Besides, there are really no Napoleonics rules that I have seen that cover this scale.

The way I see it, FOW made so much money because we could pick a company we could indentify ourselves with and then build it rather quickly. AT the same time, battlefront could consistently nickle and dime us for new books, maybe add ons to our companies etc.

I don't see why, when they finally get around to doing it, your typical force might be a company or two of infantry with maybe some lights, a few guns and maybe a troop of horse. You would also be able to build a cavalry squadron etc. Games would look like small skirmishes or smaller parts of larger battles. Also, if they did it this way, they could incorporate more armies, such as Americans and Canadians and armies from other corners of the earth.

I'm just thinking that if they do do it, this could be the product we will get and I'm wondering has anyone else had similar thoughts? Wouldn't games like this be more suitable for tournaments and fast play?

P.S. All these rules have four to a stand, why not 8?

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:53 am

Nice idea, but I think Napoelonics wouldn't really fit with this very well. I think colonial would be a better plateform for this kind of game.

Though there were skirmishes and smaller battles with only a few battalions and some independent companies involved, scaling Napoleonics down to company level actions seems to completely miss the point of doing Napoelonics in the first place. I would of thought the flavour of Napoleonics has a lot more to do with the grand tactics and large battles.

But that is just my opinion.

Joined: 13 Apr 2008 Posts: 4

Well, for posterity, I'm gonna try it....

I've already made a pseudo army list and then I'm gonna take the FOW rules, tweek the ranges and ROFs and screw with unit characteristics a bit and see what happens

I'll throw the Brit list at you

British Infantry Company

Company HQ
Company Command
Company 2IC

2 Infantry Platoons
Platoon Leader
6xInfantry teams
3xInfantry teams

0-1 Rifle Platoons
Platoon Leader
10xRifle Teams
5xRifle Teams

0-1 Light Infantry Platoons
Platoon Leader
10xRifle Teams
5xRifle Teams

0-1 Cavalry Troop
Troop Leader
10xCavalry Teams
5xCavalry Teams

0-1 Artillery Battery
Battery Commander
Full Section
6x9pounder field guns
Half Section
3x9 pounder field guns

0-2 Artillery Battery
Battery Commander
Full Battery
6x4pounder field guns
Half Section
3x4 pounder field guns

Various other things such as sappers, field works etc. could also be added

I think if I want to play grand tactical level Napoleonics I have about 90 different sets of rules to go with. Especially for someone who wants to be the British, Brigade level really isn't feasable because you have four different batallions in a brigade, each with different uniforms, you either end up with proxy armies or battalions of like five guys squeezed into larger brigades. You lose out on the coolest units like Highlanders and RIflemen etc.

Let's remember, this is Flames of War, it's alot easier to see ourselves as company commanders rather than corps commanders....for every battle fought in the Napoleonic Wars there were a hundred little skirmishes. Even the big battles can be broken down into smaller arenas...like Hougamont, or Telnitz village etc.

P.S. I wouldn't mind taking a gander at those "Point d' Rupture" rules you guys keep talking about, I really love the basing scheme

Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 55 Location: Newcastle Australia

If you play at Brigade level which will allow anything from 2 to 6 battalions supported by 1 or 2 squadrons of cavalry and some regimental or brigade artillery and divide the battalion up into companies with the ability to split off the companies (Flank, grenadier or light companies) or attach independent companies (a Rifle or Jaeger company) to the battalion you can fight smaller engagements of larger battles such as Telnitz (Austerlitz), Unterlaiching (Eggmuhl), Roith (Teugen-Husen) or Freeman’s farm (Saratoga)

Joined: 06 May 2008 Posts: 2 Location: Brighton, UK

1 to 1 scale might work as a novelty/personal take, as pointed out it would be different to the usual 'grand scale rules' out there.

Napoleonic tactics did revolve around combined arms, but so does FoW quite often, an infantry attack will be supported by tanks whilst the artillery bambard the foe, it would be just the same if the same scale were used in Napoleonic flames of war.

This scale would also allow for characters/warriors to come into play and officers to mount heroic actions instead of being lost in the throng. The player could really see themselves amidst the smoke and thunder of battle, instead of that distant guy on a hill looking at maps.

There were hundreds of small scale actions that were never recorded in the period or a smaller part of a big battle could be fought like the French taking the farm house at waterloo, the Saxon cavalry trying to capture the Bagration fleches at Borodino, Crawford's rear guard trying to repel the French cavalry at Coruna, etc etc

anyon whose watched 'Sharpe' will have seen plenty of small battles, only 'we' would have more extras to fill the ranks.

Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 4

Rhandolph wrote:

1 to 1 scale might work as a novelty/personal take, as pointed out it would be different to the usual 'grand scale rules' out there.

Napoleonic tactics did revolve around combined arms, but so does FoW quite often, an infantry attack will be supported by tanks whilst the artillery bambard the foe, it would be just the same if the same scale were used in Napoleonic flames of war.

This scale would also allow for characters/warriors to come into play and officers to mount heroic actions instead of being lost in the throng. The player could really see themselves amidst the smoke and thunder of battle, instead of that distant guy on a hill looking at maps.

There were hundreds of small scale actions that were never recorded in the period or a smaller part of a big battle could be fought like the French taking the farm house at waterloo, the Saxon cavalry trying to capture the Bagration fleches at Borodino, Crawford's rear guard trying to repel the French cavalry at Coruna, etc etc

anyon whose watched 'Sharpe' will have seen plenty of small battles, only 'we' would have more extras to fill the ranks.

I agree with this idea of getting a battalion or regiment sized game. For every large battle there where about 50 small ones before after and around the front. Not to mention raids, skirmishes and such that happened everyday.

Joined: 08 Jan 2008 Posts: 39 Location: Sydney, Australia

For my personal taste, the Company sized actions are best done using 25mm figures. I think that, as Figgy suggested, the minimum sized force I'd look at representing in 15mm would be a Brigade/Regimental group, with 2-6 Infantry Battalions, with some support. This is plausable historically, and do-able from scratch. Perhaps:

British Brigade (1809-1814)

Brigade Command Team
Brigade Major Team

2-4 Infantry Battalions, each:

Command Team
6-10 Formed Infantry Teams
2-4 Flank Infantry Teams (Deployed either as Formed or as Skirmishers) (British Battalions did not tend to use their Grenadier Comapnies as battering rams like the French.)

1-2 Skirmisher Teams (Rifle armed)

1 Cavalry Troop
Command Cavalry Team
2 Cavalry teams

1 Artillery Battery
2 Artillery Teams

Opinions?

BTW, A French Line Battalion would be :

Command Team
6-8 Formed Infantry Teams (Depending on the strength of the Battlion)
1-2 Shock Infantry Teams (Grenadiers)
1-2 Flank Infantry Teams (Voltiguers)

(I have assumed a 'Team' to be 50-60 Bayonets/Sabres)

Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Cheltenham

Well i'm thoroughly confused with what's going on here.

I get the jist of litteraly having FoW style transfered but for Napoleonics i can't see it working. It needs to be seen as a larger game than FoW more like Warmaster games which i've seen with loads of troops representented without having to much stuff to paint or try and control.

As for army selection being exactly the same as FoW set out that just seems like a waste of time becasue you can't get the feel for what is involved in creating an army.

However if this is for your own rules and "home" gaming their should be no problem but for your point about not being able to use specialsit and cool units is im my opinion easily avoided. By simply using what ever models you want but having them clearly written down as what they represent such as Highlanders could be Line infantry or Grenadiers were as Welsh Troops can be Light Infantry.

Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 55 Location: Newcastle Australia

Here is something to consider. Instead of playing at Brigade level the rules drop down to Battalion level. This would mean having Companies not Battalions as units.
French and French based armies have 6 compnaies per battalion, 4 Fusilier, 1 Grenadier and 1 Light/Voltegiers. Each company having 4 stands.
The British have 10 companies to their battalion, 8 Fusilier/Centre companies and 2 Flank companies, 1 Light and 1 Grenadier. Each company having 2 stands.
Russian and Austria companies have 6 stands per company.

A company could be purchased as either a full company or a half company.
Artillery batteries, cavalry troops or platoons and attached units such as Rilfe or Jager companies would be allowed as support troops.