Troop Rating

Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Cheltenham

I've seen some of the postings aying everyone should be Confident Trained to relfect how similiar eveyone really was at the time.

I was wondering if thsi list is any good becasue i don't want to have all the Armies the same.

France - Confident Veteran
Austria - Reluctant Trained
Prussia - Confident Trained
Russia - Reluctant Trained
Britain - Fearless Trained

I 'd love to make them all the same and include special nation traits to make them diffrent bu that would change alot of what i've already done.
Please bare in mind so far i've had to try and reflect te 10+ years this period covers. I will do indivdual periods later on in my 'thearters of war' document but thsi is just a generic list.

Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 55 Location: Newcastle Australia

No don’t change the nations but include special rules in the army lists. If you are going to make every nation the same why not just let everyone use the same nation.

Some examples of special rules
France Pre - 1805
To counter the lack of experience of the new levies or conscripts, the War Department decide to break up the old three Battalion Regiments and combine them with two conscripts Battalions.
A French player must choose 3 Line Battalions one of these can be for an example Confident Veteran and the others must be a reduced down a level, such as Reluctant Trained or Reluctant Conscript

France 1805 - 1812
The conscripts of earlier years had acquired experience and control of their tactical formations.
A French player must choose 3 Line Battalions two of these can be for an example Confident Veteran and the other can be a upgraded a level, such as Fearless Veterans

France 1812 - 1815
The conscripts or ‘Marie Louises’ of 1813-1814 were often unwilling and under equipped. To counter this they were combined into Regiments with veteran Battalions.
A French player must choose 3 Line Battalions two of these can be for an example Confident Veteran and the other must be reduced down a level, such as Reluctant Trained or Reluctant Conscript

Saxony
Saxon infantry, even though re-equipped in the French mode and somewhat retrained, was universally considered mediocre at best.
Saxon Line Battalions can not be upgraded to ‘elite’ level.

This arrangement is already covered in your army list, the description for the nation’s core battalions just need to be looked at.

Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Cheltenham

That's not quite what i mean but thanks for that useful bit of info i can use that.

Have you read the Victory in the Ages CWC recent ruleset?? what i was referring to was smaller special rules not specific periods of time rules because that sort of idea was going to be involved in my 'thearters of war' rulespacks i was intending to do for specific periods and campaign such as peninsualr, russian invasion, austerlitz, leipzig etc

Joined: 10 Aug 2008 Posts: 100 Location: Miami, FL

I want to know why Austria and Russia are reluctant.I think maybe they should be confident.

Joined: 10 Aug 2008 Posts: 100 Location: Miami, FL

General Laird wrote:

That's not quite what i mean but thanks for that useful bit of info i can sue that.

Have you read the Victory in the Ages CWC recent ruleset?? what i was referring to was smaller special rules not specific periods of time rules because that sort of idea was going to be involved in my 'thearters of war' rulespacks i was intending to do for specific periods and campaign such as peninsualr, russian invasion, austerlitz, leipzig etc

When are we gonna see the first "Theatres of War" rulespacks? Which campaign or period is gonna be first? If you need any help just let me know.Maybe it could include painting guides,sample armies,and stuff like that.I could help out with that.

Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Cheltenham

I'd love to do it asap but i have alot of other stuff to try get done before i can concentrate fully as i don't like doing bits and pieces. With Napoleonic army to do, some FoW stuff, website and the like.

I think based on what's around at my club either the Peninsular or Early period i.e. 1806 round then. with massive continental change going on around that time.

Yeah i'd love some help i can manage the rules the formats etc but i always struggle with research mainly because theirs masses, loads of differing opinions and i can never find something simple that just lists good and bad things (I suppose I can dream)

Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Maroa, IL USA

General Laird wrote:

I think based on what's around at my club either the Peninsular or Early period i.e. 1806 round then. with massive continental change going on around that time.

I would focus on the Peninsular Campaign to start with. You are really only talking about three armies unless you want to add partisans and Portuguese. Spanish would be fun write up:)

This would get the British and French mostly done.

I wouldn't worry about assigning all encompassing rating to each nation. Maybe as a bench mark to start from but different units would have differing ratings.

Would the average French unit really be CV? Seems a case could be made for the Imperial Guard to be FV, but the average French foot soldier to be CT. I would say that there should be a mix of trained and veteran to reflect the differences in troops just in an army.

Then the average army fielded by each player would tend to have a good veteran unit or two with several trained units with it. This would also lead to people just taking a good number of trained troops, or some just a few veteran units.

Enjoy
Rich

Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Cheltenham

It's a shame no one except a few have seen the Trial Lists for the Empires to replace the current ones.

I think this would answer alot of people's questions i keep getting. I'd have a mix for the French of a few smaller sized Veteran units but the majority being conscripted soldiers. Luckily with these add ons i'd not have to do whole new lists except for Spain etc but just a errata and some little scenario's

Joined: 30 Sep 2008 Posts: 6 Location: Minnesota, USA

A few comments on basic troop quality from someone who hasn't seen the rules at all...

Some basic snapshots based on my reading and opinions

France: Best trained & led troops in Europe from 1805-1807 (maybe 1809). After that time, troop quality declines due to both rapid expansion of the army and mounting losses in both the officer corps and the ranks. A French infantryman of 1813 is usually a conscript, unless he is one of the lucky survivors of the 1812 campaign or a Spanish veteran. Very good skirmishers, especially in comparison to the continental powers. The Imperial Guard was excellent, and in later campaigns was huge, (mostly Young Guard).

Russia: Brave troops, but usually poorly trained and led. Russians were known for taking incredible amounts of punishment before cracking. Poor skirmishing capability. Good Guard Troops.

Austria: Solid troops, but with a mediocre officer corps for the most part. Larger units. Austrian Jagers were very good skirmishers, but relatively few in number. No Guard troops, but many battalions of Grenadiers.

Prussia: Two different armies: The 1806/07 version was well-trained but was clinging to the tactics of the Seven Years' War and paid the price for it. The later army was reconstructed from scratch. Regulars were good troops, Reserves were OK, Landwehr were usually 2nd rate troops. Small Guard formations, also had reserve grenadiers.

Britain: High morale, high training, decent officer corps. Excellent skirmishing capability. A few guard units.

Each nation had it's good troops and it's bad ones. With the exception of Early Imperial French and maybe the Brits, though, saddling an entire nation with a superb or poor rating is probably skewing things a bit much. That would become like Empire, where for the most part you see French, British or Prussian armies only.

The flavor for the army should come in the add-ons and upgrades... Things like light regiments for the French, Guards for other nations, Landwher/militia, elite units, etc.

Just some quick thoughts, and all in my opinion of course.

Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 117 Location: Cheltenham

Well i've almost finished the first 'theater of war' doc. I'm just waiting to sort out the Salamanca Scenario and then i can possibly add some nice stuff like pictures or sample armies. I'll need some time to get suitable terrain and of course some painting done unless people want to send me some pictures of their stuff that would be really good Wink

Joined: 10 Aug 2008 Posts: 100 Location: Miami, FL

Will there be a list for the Spanish in this supplement? I'd be interested in making a small force of 'em.